What skinhead hasn't had any fights. It's just something that finds you. It's not like you go looking for fights. Nobody's gonna tell you that skinheads aren't about violence. We are about violence, but somebody has to be. Life operates on a cycle. Violence works on a cycle like anything else. To say that violence begets violence and that is the reason to stop it-- that's foolish. It won't happen. It will always be there. The problem is when people stop reacting to unwarranted violence.

I've been a skinhead since 1983. It wasn't something you really "got into". The whole skinhead movement--it's a state of mind. It is a matter of pride in one's self. It's a working class movement. It is a group that bonds together stronger than any other group that I have seen before. The bond is universal. There used to be a huge problem with racist and non-racist skins. There still are, to a point. People are skinheads first, and beliefs [come] second. I can go anywhere as a skinhead and people will put me up and respect for who I am. It's not a political statement. It's something that just grows with you and in you.

DSB was the brainchild of Steven. In '85, we were wandering around in Dallas, and this big motherfucking Nazi dude was beating up this girl. Steve had a skateboard. We started whopping on this guy with the skateboard. Some people walked up. They saw these two kids beating up on this big guy, and they said "That's dumb, skater boys." We ended up adopting that as a name-- Dumb Skater Boys. That dropped pretty fast and became DSB. Most of the people in it today have no idea that that even inspired it.

DSB's everywhere--Georgia, North Carolina, Florida, Minnesota, Oklahoma, DC, France, Spain, Germany... We have had over 1500-2000 skins involved with DSB. Right now, we have less than 100 active members. I was vice-president, and Steven was president. People, like myself, have moved on and let the younger skins take control. We're still around, but we're not as active as we used to be.

I want to deny it, but it's a gang. We have [new members] go through patty cake. There's nothing funnier than watching to bold skinheads go through patty cake with each other. It teaches a pre-school type of love for each other. It teaches you that it's ok to hug your guy friend. We're very much about hugging. It's a big thing. A lot of people have secret handshakes, we don't. We hug. It just brings people together. The group is all about love. Part of that love is getting a guy off your brother's back.

It's not like we go out, drink and look for fights. We have a mission and purpose. We try to make the streets a safer place to hang out. In '87, the Confederate Hammerskins were taking over Dallas. We became a presence there. We worked like the Guardian Angels, making the Nazis realize that they could not go down there, jump someone and have a five on one. They would have a fight on their hands. Now, you don't see Nazi skins in Dallas anymore.

At times, there were many death threats against both of us-- very explicit ones. Like "Die, you stupid fucker. You're not going to wake up tomorrow." They weren't grammatically correct at all. We got a letter from Michael Lowe, grand wizard of the KKK in Waco. It was funny. He was a typical redneck-- wrote just like he talked. (falsetto Southern accent) "I was shot eight times by 38 special. I will use same gun to shoot you too. Unlike real white people, you'll die." Stupid things like that.

The Nazis these days are going back to their roots-- the rockabilly movement. A lot of people realize that now. They realize that the skinhead movement is not about racism-- never was about racism. It was only about unity from day one.

It bothers me that people aren't educated, and it bothers me that the media is willing to give Nazis all the air time in the world, but when someone does something positive in the movement, it doesn't even warrant a write-up in the newspaper. About a year ago when Chris Lebowski got sentenced for a killing, I spent all afternoon at the TV station with ten of my guys doing an interview. They didn't play it, because we didn't say anything stupid. They were expecting uneducated heathens. It's frustrating that it's so underestimated.